Collection planning?

Illustrator posted: 07.07.2011

Dear all,

I think that it is fantastic that there is so much interest in keeping S. francesae, it is certainly a strain which we are obliged to keep going!

This makes me wondering about the other species, after all, we talk about some enigmatic species much of the time, but there are some 35-40 species and of some there are several strains, some relatively "safe" in nature, many severely threatened ... Is it already becoming clear which species are kept by many people and which by only 1 or 2 persons?

More practically: say that someone has an aquarium of 100 litres, without fish (if such a thing exists :-) ) and he or she asks which species we advise to put in, what is the answer?

Paul

 

Grigri posted: 08.07.2011

The answer is... Is I don't know !
For what I know International breeding list is still missing...

 

Michael Koeck posted: 08.07.2011

Well, one problem in general is: The rare species are often not breeding too well (and the few surplus is often given to people (friends, neighbours) who lose this strain again), so we have definitely a surplus in a lot of "common" species (Ameca, eiseni, multipunctata, aso). We - the GWG - look after each species (and strain, at least, when it belongs to a different genetic line; for example, there are 4 in Xenotoca variata), BUT: one of OUR problmes (I mean GWG) is, that some regional groups are active in collecting fish data and others are lazy - sorry to say so, so there are missing fish data for some bigger groups for approximately 2 years now, despite asking again and again...so: we do not know already about the number of breeders, species and strains we keep, unfortunately. Me normally, I try to give away fish of well breeding, but not so common strains, the rare ones only to specialists.

 

Illustrator posted: 08.07.2011

I think that always parts of the information will be missing. On one hand this is of course very sad, but it also means that a "lost" strain might resurface some day.

Would it not be an idea to just complete the overview with the data which are submitted at this moment? This might be a stimulus for some to add their data (when it becomes very visible that theirs are not included). And the data which are there, are the only solid data on which a collection planning can be based ...

p.s. how to determine who is a specialist and who is a beginner? I am feeling very much like a beginner right now because it looks like I am loosing a nice (pure) strain of Campoma P. wingei, which was doing very well just some time ago (but crashing/recovering several times before) ... It seems I can't even maintain guppy's ...

 

Michael Koeck posted: 09.07.2011

Okay Paul, I will collect what we have at the moment.

Determination is always a problem. For me a specialist is someone who is proved in breeding successfully difficult genera like Allotoca, Girardinichthys, Neotoca, aso throughout some years. Means, before I give a couple of eg Allotoca zacapuensis to someone who kept guppies till now and wants to start with Goodeids, I would give them to someone, who is breeding eg Skiffia lermae for some time. Decisions will have to be made from case to case. What I mean is: we have to distribute our offspring carefully:-)

Mike

 

Obis posted: 02.08.2011

Hi all!

I've been some time "out", I couldn't spend on my hobbys as many time as I did before. I hope I can be more active on GWG from now.

On my opinion there are two types of "specialist" fish keepers. The first one are the fish keepers who maintain succesfully an specie for years. Maybe it's not a good breeder but he is accurate and constant keeping fish. You can be sure that he will maintain that special fish for years, maybe without many new fish.

The second one is who breed absolutaly all but now during many years, he is an excelent breeder but he is lazy to mantain a fish strain for years.

The combiantion of the two fish keepers is an excelent person for the GWG

Easy fish are better for beginers not only to avoid loss some fish but also, and more important, to motivate him with Goodeids.

Regards,

Edu

 

Tversted posted: 23.08.2011

Last year we tried to distribute a lot of goodeid population but was almost nonsuccessive as even in rare Allotocas the interest was very low. This is typical for rare fish without color. Also among goodeidcollectors.
About giving rare fish to beginners its a gutfeeling. Very soon beginner become much better fishbreeders than  you do.
Martin

 

Illustrator posted: 26.08.2011

Well, I have 2 aquaria and no place/time for more. So what I can do is: ask my direction if we can kick out the goldfish at the office and move some of my fish to there or, exchange the species which I have now for other species.

What the direction thinks I am not sure, because we have the goldfish to sometimes put in a small container and show to schoolchildren (which I wouldn't do with a goodeid - showing, yes, putting in a small container, no).

And I am reluctant to exchange my fish for other species, as long as I can't be sure that "my species" are safe in the hands of others. What I have now is the "common stuff", Ameca, X. San Marcos, Ch. lateralis. Tell me, are these 100 % safe in the hands of "how many" fishkeepers? And is another species so critical that it is better when I give up my fish and replace them by something else? This is the kind of question we WILL get to with "collection planning".

 

Tversted posted: 28.08.2011

I think the best ansver is that you should keep the fish that suits the conditions you can offer best and the fish you like to most, nomatter their status in the wild.
Some species gets common during some years and then people let them go to get new species or because they are common and then they become uncommon. So, if you like the species you have and they do well for you, keep them. If you are thinking conservation, then be sure to keep documented strains.
I once breed highly endangered goodeids in the classroom of the first grade school class. the children liked them and the fish did well. Just because a físh is endangred doesnt mean they are difficult to keep and breed. Allotoca meeki is not difficult to keep and breed, they just have very specific requirements.
martin

 

Illustrator posted: 28.08.2011

In the case of Ameca I would even dare to argue that the difference between documented and undocumented strains is not so very large: as far as i know they are all from exactly the same locality, just collection dates differ! Of course there can still be some slight genetic difference between strains collected on different dates, which reflects individual variation at this locality.

About the choise of species I like to add a thought. I have been thinking how I get interested in certain species. This is usually quite a long process, which starts with accidentally reading about a species or seeing it somewhere. Especially to me unknown species stand out. I very rarely decide to start with a species at that moment and mostly I don't realise yet that will become so interesting to me.  When this happens several times with the same species, I get interested. Then, if I also hear that the species is endangered, I start reading all I can, thinking if i have a place and perhaps obtaining them if possible, which can still take a long time. So if you ask me now if I am interested in Allotoca spp. I would probably reply "no, no place/time", but if I later see them somewhere, and then read something about them, I might get very interested in time.

Meaning: in the long term it helps a lot to write articles about species and start discussions on forums and so on ...